The panel takes questions from the audience. *Photo by Eric Salvary
Cathedral International, Perth Amboy 4/19/18
PERTH AMBOY – A Forum on the Legalization of Marijuana was held at the Cathedral International on Thursday, April 19, 2018. The Panel consisted of: Perth Amboy Councilman Fernando Irizarry, Senator Joseph Vitale 19th District, Psychiatrist Dr. David Nathan, Doctors for Cannabis Regulation, Attorney Lazaro Cardenas, Latino Action Network, and Attorney Jon-Henry Barr, Municipal Prosecutor, Clark.
Councilman Irizarry who was instrumental in establishing this Marijuana Forum spoke first. He thanked the panel, City Officials, Pastor Danielle Brown, The Cathedral International, and the Velez’s, Damaris Ramirez, the Council, “…and my wife and also my team who as the song says, “raise me up”.”
Pastor Brown came up to the podium to thank the panel and asked them to take 3 to 5 minutes to share their thoughts, not to dissuade “yes” or “no.” It’s important that we respect each other’s opinion. It’s not a debate.”
(L to R) Damaris Ramirez, Attorney Lazaro Cardenas, Psychiatrist Dr. David Nathan, Pastor Danielle Brown Cathedral International, Attorney Jon-Henry Barr, Esq., Councilman Fernando Irizarry, Senator Joe Vitale 19th District *Photo by Carolyn Maxwell
Mr. Cardenas spoke first, and talked about his ties to the Latino Action Coalition. He talked about the marijuana reform. “It’s not a matter if it’s going to be legalized – it’s a matter of when. I have a question. Do you want to be in the dark or capitalize on it as a business person? It will be a licensed industry and with distribution, it will be a growing business that goes with jobs, whether you agree on legalizing it or not. My second question is: do you want a life ruined because of marijuana offenses? Because of this, a person can lose benefits, housing, student loans. They are known as career criminals and can lose their jobs or be disqualified from jobs.”
Then he gave stats of different ethnic groups who had a chance of being arrested on these offenses. “1 out of 1000 for Whites; 1 out 450 for Spanish; 1 out of 84 for Blacks.” There’s a disparity for arrests of Whites versus Blacks. It doesn’t make sense to criminalize our youth.”
Resident Sue Pezza (With Mic); Audience Member Jerry Yaros (Rear) *Photo by Eric Salvary
Jon-Henry Barr spoke next. He referenced the song that was sung earlier before the forum began, which was, “You raise me up.” “That was my wedding song. I was a municipal prosecutor. I grew up in Clark and was elected to City Council in my twenties. I’m a Republican. We need to remove the prohibition. As a prosecutor, I was arguing many cases and found that marijuana cases were not worth my time. The danger posed by marijuana is less than alcohol abuse. When we had drug and opioid OD’s, I don’t remember anyone ever being taken to the hospital on marijuana OD’s when I worked as an EMT. I don’t see the public safety threat of marijuana as other substances. It would be better off legalizing and regulating marijuana. Municipal prosecutors came out for legalizing pot. Colorado has come out okay. Marijuana still has problems, but as a whole, there will be more positives. People who were polled between the ages of 18 to 35 support legalizing marijuana. This should be done as safe and effective as possible.”
Dr. David Nathan spoke next. He is a psychiatrist in New Jersey and works at a Princeton Health Care facility. “These are my views and I’m not representing that group. I’m in favor of legalizing. Look at the harm done by Prohibition. Prohibition will lead to more harmful drugs. Prohibition has failed. Underage use of marijuana is harmful, and the age should be higher. Put marijuana behind the counter where it could be controlled. There’s 22 million users today. Alcohol and tobacco usage is declining by minors. Marijuana is illegal, but it’s uses have increased. We need to distinguish between adults and underage use. People should be at least 21. It has the addiction rate of caffeine. You can’t have a fatal overdose of marijuana. There’s a big difference between marijuana and heroin use. There were 6000 opioid deaths last year. You can’t have labeling or testing of marijuana. Regulation of marijuana is best. It’s not worthy of punishment. Would you have wanted your grandparents to be arrested for marijuana use? I helped create the Doctors for Cannabis Legalization which has gone nationwide, and it may go international. Joycelyn Elder (Former Surgeon General 1993-1994) had endorsed legalizing marijuana as has Dr. Andrew Weil. They are mainstream doctors who have called for legalizing marijuana.”
Senator Vitale spoke next. “I’m the Chair of the Senate Health Committee. I struggled with this a long time. We should wait for data from states where it’s legal. Colorado has a better medicinal program. The first prescription (for marijuana) is not a high dose. Medicinal is one thing (where it’s prescribed by a health care provider). We don’t want people to self-diagnose themselves and think that marijuana can help. There is an imbalance in arrests and a lot of profiling. The rate of discrimination has not changed in states (that have legalized marijuana). What’s the argument? People of color will still be profiled for other reasons. Young people will be affected. It’s not a good thing if it leads to other drugs. There is a lot of money behind this and people are going to make billions of dollars. It does have therapeutic value, but it’s not going to stop racial discrimination.”
Irizarry was the last to make comments, “This will have an impact on this community for a long time. Will there be money earmarked for the police or drug rehabilitation? I’ve seen the destruction. I’ve never used drugs, but I have family members addicted to drugs and lost their lives. A lot of people want it to be legal, but not sold in their neighborhood. Will we have dispensaries on every corner like we have bodegas? Business opportunities for whom? Will there be money for drug addiction programs? Family members got help from faith groups – not the government. Now that the opioids are affecting affluent neighborhoods they want something done. The bottom line issue is racism.”
Rev. Brown then said a few words, “Racism is systemic. If we legalize and regulate marijuana, will this have an impact on people of color?”
Cardenas addressed this concern. “The proposed bill doesn’t address every issue. We want to make sure people of color can get into the business and get their records expunged. The taxes from this will go to rehab programs. No bills are perfect. 25,000 people are getting records every year, while we are waiting for data from other states. People of color are still being unfairly targeted. If we regulate, we know it will be safe.”
Brown then asked, “Once we regulate, will there be more bills behind it?”
Cardenas responded, “We are working on this.”
Vitale then commented, “All money does not go to their original purposes. It’s going to be years before business opportunities become available for this. We can do decriminalization now. We are still going to have criminalization for those who purchase if they’re underage.”
Brown then stated, “Families are being split up because of parents failing marijuana testing.”
Audience members then came up to ask questions or make remarks. Donna Stewart, who is also a pastor talked about people not being addicted to marijuana. “I celebrate the decriminalization. We have a lot of bars and liquor licenses. How can we compare liquor licenses to marijuana licenses?”
Vitale responded, “There’s little opportunity in marijuana. It’s highly regulated, expensive, and technical. There’s a huge investment to be a grower and dispenser. There’s very little opportunity for a family business.”
Pastor Brown then added, “This will help people who have money to invest.”
Dr. Nathan commented, “There are 570,000 arrests a year nationwide. 17,000 were arrested in New York. We will help people of color if we legalize marijuana. We should look for expungement of people’s records. We should give those who have the least amount of money to get the business opportunities. Marijuana does not lead to harder drugs. The problem is poverty. Colorado is funding schools. I encourage Vitale to join us in helping us.”
Resident Sue Pezza came up to speak and became very emotional stating, “You should be glad that you are holding this forum in a church, so I don’t have to say what’s really on my mind. You just know how it is living with an addict.” She then sat down because she was too emotional to continue.
A Resident speaks about the legalization of marijuana
*Photo by Eric Salvary
Jerry Yaros, another audience member came up next. “You talk about money. What about people on harder drugs? How did they start?”
Barr answered and said, “Harder drug use started with liquor.”
Yaros then questioned, “What made people go to drugs first?”
Dr. Nathan said, “Some people start self-medicating and poverty is a problem.”
A woman from the audience said, “Racism seems to be focused on. Alcohol can cause mania behavior. Weed is laced with other drugs. I’d rather have them do weed than alcohol.”
Dr. Nathan said, “The younger you are, the worse it is because it affects the brain which is still developing. At the age of 21, the brain levels off. In rare cases, cannabis can help. We don’t know if there’s prenatal harm. Pregnant women should abstain as well as people predisposed to narcotics.”
Another audience member came up to speak and remarked, “This law will help expunge criminal records. It’s going to be legalized eventually.”
Vitale responded, “We will address the expungement and decriminalize those records.”
Another audience member came up and agreed, “A lot of others can benefit from legalized marijuana.”
Irizarry responded, “To the business end of legalizing marijuana. You have to have money to invest in this. If people are employed and its minimum wage, how will it be a benefit?”
A young 8-year-old boy came up and asked a question, “What will the law look like when I’m of age (21)?”
Vitale responded, “We can’t predict that until we get more data.”
Cardenas responded, “Just stay away from all drugs.”
Resident Daniel Pietro came up and said, “We need to legalize marijuana and just take steps to update the law as we go along.”
Vitale responded, “I see no benefit and we always think it’s going to solve all problems. Let’s wait to see the consequences on families and the community in other states where it’s legal. Let’s be rational. We can fix expungement records now.”
Dr. Nathan said, “Most people arrested can’t afford fines and it leads to incarceration. States where marijuana is legal are doing quite well.”
A resident from South Amboy came up to speak, “My child started with marijuana and it escalated to hard drugs. We trusted alcohol and drug companies and it failed us. How can we protect against these additives? This is not Grandpa’s marijuana.”
Barr responded, “I don’t want my kids to smoke anything. There are no guarantees things will be better. Marijuana is a multimillion dollar operation already and they’re not paying taxes on it. In the past two years, there were 20,000 marijuana cases pending because test labs have been backlogged and they’re not testing properly. Sometimes the technicians just sniff the product and make a determination by that instead of properly testing it.”
Acting Perth Amboy Police Chief Roman McKeon came up to speak and said, “Mayor Diaz and I support medical marijuana, but we don’t support recreational use. We don’t have the resources for the people coming here to buy marijuana by crossing the Outerbridge from New York.”
Barr continued, “If New Jersey legalizes marijuana, New York will be right behind it.”
Irizarry made a remark, “We will not get help from the Port Authority or the State.”
McKeon then questioned, “How can we test people who are stoned?”
Barr answered, “It would have to be a drug recognition by the police. It’s a mixed bag.”
Cardenas mentioned, “Marijuana stays in your system for one month.”
Dr. Nathan added, “There is not a definitive test for marijuana.”
Resident Sharon Hubberman came up to speak, “There are three issues when dealing with marijuana: 1) medical; 2) decriminalization and 3) recreational use. I am against recreational use. We have more calls to poison control. Our Governor proposes taxation. We have a black market on marijuana. Do you think that the black market will go away and lose that untaxed money? We all require drug testing? It will be a detriment to our community.”
Barr responded, “This will undercut the black market. Right now, what we have in my view is bad.”
Another audience member questioned, “Will this help the community health programs and who will be the regulators?”
Vitale responded, “The dispensaries will have different strains controlled by law enforcement. Quality of life and transportation will be affected.”
A pastor of a church came up to speak in reference to the three states where marijuana is legal. “In those three states, collision claims have increased. What will it do with our high insurance rates already? There are a lot of health issues associated with marijuana already. This will tax our health issues even more.”
Dr. Nathan said, “That is true. This affects your airways. They can do edible marijuana. People vaporize at stronger doses. There is an increase in heart attacks and increases in pulse rate. Marijuana is an anti-inflammatory.”
Geri Barcheski came up to speak next. She questioned the statement when someone said that opioid use was reduced with legalization of marijuana. “I am puzzled by this remark. Pot is easily accessible and is vaporized everywhere. 85% of grade school kids know people who use marijuana. My son who died started with marijuana as did some of his friends who died.”
Vitale responded, “Overdoses have gone down in Colorado because of a stronger medicinal program. That was the first introduction. We have 13,000 medicinal users. That will increase to 200,000. Legal or not, kids will always get their hands on marijuana.”
Stephanie Márquez-Villafañe came up to speak next. “Look at the advertisement that the big tobacco and alcohol companies are putting up and the communities and the age groups they are targeting.”
Dr. Nathan responded, “The packaging (for medical marijuana) will not be attractive to young people. Warning labels are not a deterrent. We need to talk about regulation even if opposed to legalization.”
Another audience member asked if the sales from marijuana will go into research for clinical trials.
Vitale responded, “It has to be put in a bill. I support funds to go to clinical trials.”
Dr. Nathan suggested people look at the website for Doctors for Cannabis to see what we propose.”
Resident Jeremy Baratta made a simple statement, “If you decriminalize without legalization, this will solve a lot of problems.”
Barr said, “We need to undercut the drug dealers and regulate (marijuana) as we do alcohol and tobacco.”
Cardenas then added, “There used to be an underground for moonshine. Does anybody know any people who make moonshine, now?”
Some people in the audience nodded “yes.”
Dr. Nathan wanted to thank Councilman Irizarry for getting this forum together.
At the end, Councilman Irizarry thanked Carol Dortch-Wright who helped put the forum together.
