11/3/21 Business Meeting

By: Katherine Massopust

SOUTH AMBOY – The meeting began at 6 p.m. After passing the consent agenda, approval of minutes of the 10/10/21 Council Meeting, and the bill list, there were two ordinances on the agenda: 2012-19 and 2021-20 referring to the Manhattan Beach PILOT and SA 101 Main Street Urban Renewal.

Council President Mickey Gross asked the council what course of action they should go about the discussion on the PILOTs. There were four representatives present at the meeting from Manhattan Beach LLC including Attorney Kevin McManimon and Principal & Managing Member of March Development Anthony Marchigiano.

Councilman Tom Reilly stated, “They should be pulled. We shouldn’t vote on this at a business meeting. I plead to have this pulled until the 11/20/21 (regular) meeting.

Councilwoman Zusette Dato felt otherwise, “I see no reason why we should pull it. It has been going on for a long time. We had other meetings. There are people here.”

Councilman Brian McLaughlin stated, “It should be held off. Let residents know, whether it be for or against.”

Council Vice-President Christine Noble said, “Vote on it today. There were more people here than on the other night. I don’t know what tabling it does.”

Law Director Francis Womack stated, “Tonight is a public hearing. We’ve had presentations at other meetings.”

Council President Mickey Gross said, “There were four public meetings. We have to be fair to the developer. This will be the second meeting (on the agenda for discussion). We need to be fair to these people (representatives from Manhattan Beach LLC who were present at the meeting) also.”

Council Vice-President Christine Noble said, “We are at a public meeting tonight.”

Councilman Tom Reilly said, “What is the problem with putting off the vote until the 22nd? We can advertise on our Facebook page.”

Councilwoman Zusette Dato said, “People who follow (the meetings) will know it is on the agenda.”

Reilly added, “The appropriate thing is to table it.”

Noble said, “Let the public be heard.”

Law Director Womack suggested, “We can carry it. (If the council votes to do so).”

Council President Mickey Gross said, “Councilwoman Noble is right. We might hear things that may make it necessary to carry it.” Gross then asked if any members of the council had any more comments.

Councilman Tom Reilly read from a prepared statement.

Anthony Marchigiano came up to the mic and spoke, “There are two separate proposals: one industrial proposal and one residential.” Marchigiano explained the process of testing for contaminants on the property. “The cost depends how effective it is. It is around $3-$4 million (for the cleanup).

Law Director Womack said, “The LSRP (Licensed Site Remediation Professional) process went before we were in litigation. We spent several million. I have the LSRP report.”

Marchigiano stated, “The landfill contaminants are spreading up to Cheesequake Creek.”

Marchigiano said, “The city keeps 95%. In a normal tax scenario, the town doesn’t get all the money – some goes to the county.”

Attorney McManimon then addressed the question, “In your hypothetical scenario (regular property tax), you will get less money. With the PILOT, the city gets 95% of the PILOT.”

Council President Gross added, “With the PILOT, no money goes to the school board.”

Councilman Reilly said, “There was a PILOT previously presented to us. What subsequently happened, they sold the property.”

Councilwoman Dato said, “They didn’t have a cleanup. I was for the project.  A PILOT is necessary to have the cleanup done.”

Council President Gross said, “We had a PILOT who had negotiations with the city. Then the developer sold it at a substantial profit. A lot of people feel that we got burnt.”

Attorney McManimon stated, “It is a matter of perspective. If you don’t do it, you will not have the land cleaned up and no PILOT money. I would urge you to read the supplemental material. If the developer sells the property, you will have to decide this in the deal.”

Gross then said, “A lot of people felt we got burnt.”

Dato said, “They paid for that cleanup and if they sold it, the people love it who live there. When it was sold, they made a profit.”

McManimon answered, “That project got built. It would not have been built without the tax abatement.”

Councilman McLaughlin asked if the PILOT could be transferred if the developer considers selling the property. It was stated that any transfer would require council approval.

Attorney McManimon said, “They can sell the property while building, which would require the council’s approval. If the property is sold after completion, we need to just report the sale to the municipality.” He then stated that a 30-year PILOT was requested.

Gross asked, “If 10 years down the road, they want to sell it, does that agreement stand?”

McManimon answered “That is subject to the agreement.”

McLaughlin asked if the PILOT can be made untransferable.

Gross added, “Is that something that can be a part of agreement?”

McManimon answered, “It has to be something in agreement with the developers.”

Womack said, “It is a tough negotiation.”

McManimon said, “Certain things have to be agreed to. The city has to be reasonably satisfied.”

Councilman Reilly said, “The city of South Amboy has done a lot of improvements for developers.” 

McLaughlin asked, “Are the builders who work for you using E-Verify? (E-Verify is a web based system that proves enrolled employers to confirm the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States).”

McManimon assured him, “Yes.”

McLaughlin said, “We do have local businesses in town. We have contractors in town.”

Dato said, “This is the most important PILOT that has ever been considered. Think about what we are doing to our city. If we don’t approve it, it is not doing justice to our citizens.”

Mayor Fred Henry said, “A lot of comments have been made tonight. The state gave the PILOT program so land like this can be redeveloped. This is why the state has PILOTS. We have worked with developers. They (the developers) have been very open. These people are not unscrupulous. As far as selling Woodmont, who is to say? The city is not losing out. Just as with any PILOT, the rent goes up – the money goes up. We are getting what we need out of this. Nobody has been knocking on our doors for this property. We’ve been talking for months. This is a good project for South Amboy. The city is only responsible for the Fire Department, Police Department, and EMS. They are continuing the walkway. They are paying 100% union. This is good project and South Amboy negotiations go on. You negotiate, you do your best. We have a good project here. If it is not built, it will look like hell for how many years? There are a lot of good things in this project.”

The ordinances were open up to the public for discussion. It was noted that comments were made on both 2021-19 and 2021-20.

The first person to speak was Resident Brandon Russell. “Can you put something to void the PILOT if the property is sold?”

Lawyer Kevin McManimon answered, “It is not in the proposal. I’ve never seen it happen. They want 30 years. I’ve never successfully asked for that.”

Anthony Marchigiano added, “Our interest is to not sell that property. If we lost the PILOT, we would never accrue the cost spent. Our intent is not to sell the property. In earlier years, the cost would be higher than later years.”

McManimon added, “To reduce cost in the early years – if you terminate the PILOT, you would cut your nose to spite your face.”

Marchiagiano stated, “The site remediation – the DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) has given us a hard time above the walkway. We will inject into it so contaminants will oxidize. The contamination sinks, then starts to spread. First, it is the size of a car, then the size multiplies into the size of a football field. This is paid for out of escrow.”

Council President Mickey Gross asked, “Is there a number to put up for testing for remediation?”

Marchigiano answered, “A couple million. The first round of injections has two chemicals going in: one is algae based and one lipid based. We have to make sure the injections are deep. Three months later we will see and start the process again. We know what is there.”

Gross then asked, “DEP Caps?”

Marchigiano answered, “We can’t dig it all. That will be capped under (the guideline of) DEP standards.”

Russell then asked, “I recommend the project gets carried. We should have a meeting forum to see the pros and cons to it. How do we know people will want to live there?”

McManimon said, “The city has its own LSRP (Jeff Powley TRC) engaged at this site who has certain obligations and power to advance the property to recommend what needs to clean up the property.”

Marchigiano stated that there were community meetings in the past, and he knows that it is a long process. “This is a big risk.”

Russell said, “I disagree. We are not a proven market. The proximity will fill out those rentals. The meetings were not advertised. Show the renderings. Walk through again.”

Resident and Historical Commissioner Mary Szraro came up, “The Conrail property is key – considered for affordable housing next to Delaney Homes.”

Szaro noted that the Conrail property is of historic significance.

Business Administrator Glenn Skarzynski stated that the discussion has been ongoing.

Mary Szaro stated she would like to be in on those conversations.

The next member from the public to speak was Greg Babolack. He asked if townhouses could be built on the property. It was argued that the decision was for apartments to be built there, mainly because there most likely would not have school age children in the apartments.

Gross, who was beginning to get irritated stated, “You’re not going to make money on a vacant piece of property.”

Marchigiano stated, “Rentals – this is a proven market.”

Babolack asked, “How are we alleviating traffic? If there are 2243 apartments, there will be at least 400 cars in the area.”

Planner Andrew Janiw from Beacon Planning came up to speak. “Studying the city’s population, the traffic can be handled. There are less cars. The trend in general is people are owning less cars. When proposals are sent to the planning board, traffic is included. We are fairly confident this will not be an issue.”

B.A. Skarzynski said, “We have revisited this. Manhattan Beach will have full access to the byway. 

Gross said, “The plan will not impact the city.”

Skarzynski said, “People are relying less on vehicles and more on mass transit. It is very easy to accommodate.”

Noble added, “Ferry Road will be a third way.”

Marchigiano said, “I do not believe traffic will be an issue. We have thirty (extra) parking places. There will be more than ample parking in the structure. All concerns are subject to the resolution approval.”

Reilly asked, “The impact on Broadway?”

Marchigiano answered, “Ferry Road will have full access.”

B.A. Skarzynski stated, “Why would we introduce negotiations and resources if it were not necessary if it is not approved?”

Babolack asked, “Why don’t we do it first. What if it doesn’t work?”

Skarzynski reiterated, “There is no reason to do that unless it is approved. Why do it in advance?”

Janiw added, “People own less cars and use less cars.”

Babolack stated, “I really think we should have a public meeting. I’m afraid we will go back to December 2018 (the meeting when Woodmont was approved and which the audio recording of the meeting was not decipherable).

Christopher Sneega came up to speak next. He was pleased with the ideas that Marchigiano had, which including an area to replenish some of the wildlife. “What is Plan B if we don’t vote for this? What is Plan B?”

Resident Larry Parsons spoke next, “Every one of you know my opinions on PILOTS. After listening to David Kales speak for 45 minutes at the last meeting (see the 10/20/21 issue of the Amboy Guardian available at www.amboyguardian.com). If we don’t do this, and that stuff seeps into where we are? I am a Commissioner on the Redevelopment Agency. Dave Kales was here last time and made a presentation. He did a fantastic job. I voted “Yes” to the project. It has been seeping into the coastline. There is a playground right next door. It is the transference of risk that in my view is worth a potential PILOT. I don’t know anyone in town to affect our school children. The financial situation – $200 million. I don’t know of any other developer willing to invest $10 or 20 million. I support this project, so did all of the commissioners.”

Marchigiano said, “It does not limit us to get the word out. We did six community meetings. We are 2½ years into this.”

Resident Brandon Russell said, “I don’t have a position. I care less about the warehouse. The public has not been educated enough. The city has not given out of the way to the public about this. I’m a numbers and transparency guy.”

The next person to speak was Police Officer Michael Kelly who had one question, “If you don’t get the PILOT, will you build?”

Marchigiano answered, “2½ years in – blood, sweat and tears! Without a PILOT, we would not be able to get it done. With no PILOT – the city pays for the cleanup.”

After everyone from the public spoke, the council had to make the decision whether to vote on the PILOT immediately or to carry it over to the next regular Council meeting (Monday, November 22, 2021, at 7 p.m.). The council felt that a project of this importance to South Amboy should be at a regular meeting and everyone who wishes to be heard can speak before the final vote. Council President Mickey Gross stated that the final vote will be at the 11/22/21 regular council meeting at 7 p.m.

Council Comments:

Councilman Tom Reilly thanked the council for putting the vote off until November 22nd. He then thanked the food pantries and first responders, and he noted that the Dowdell Library was recognizing our Veterans. He congratulated the winners of the Board of Education election. Reilly then reminded everyone of the Friends of South Amboy fundraiser which will feature 4 basketball matches on December 18, 2021.

Council Vice-President Christine Noble wished everyone a Happy Veteran’s Day.

Councilwoman Zusette Dato said, “Congratulations to our BOE Candidates. If you go down the Waterfront, they are replacing the walkway. Thank you, County Commissioners.”

Council President Mickey Gross said, “These developers are very transparent. I thank them personally. It is not easy.”

Mayor Fred Henry said, “I thank the people involved. The kids had a Halloween party at the YMCA and the Historic Cemetery Tour. I want to thank our volunteers who go to other places to pick up the food using their own vehicles. I thank the developers for being here tonight.”

B.A. Glenn Skarzynski stated that the Rotary Club is having a virtual event on November 19th at 7 p.m.

Law Director Francis Womack noted that he needed a short closed session at the next meeting to discuss important matters with the council. 

Public Portion:  

Greg Babolack asked if the audio was put up on the website of the December 2018 meeting. 

B.A. Glenn Skarzynski explained that the audio is inaudible, but he would put it up there anyway. 

Babolack asked if anyone else was interested in the property.

B.A. Skarzynski assured him that no one was interested except Manhattan Beach. 

The meeting adjourned at 8:22 p.m. All council members were present.